@Kivuva,
The lawyers were indeed not YET disrupted. But they were clearly on the way to being cut-off, until they raised the alarm.
Which is a reflection of what is being shared here…perhaps there was minimum consultation with key stakeholders (read LSK, etc) with regard to the digitization effort at the lands ministry.
Having said that, the thrust of my article was that lawyers should have been consulted with a view to automating/digitizing the conveyancing module. Instead, the lawyers got consulted with a view to entrenching status quo – the analog module. And they did walk away with those assurances.
So why on earth are we spending millions on the exercise??? – if the key fundamentals wont change anyway and are instead ringfenced and cast in stone by vested LSK interests?
And its not just in lands, we had the same story at the election body (IEBC). We spend billions computerising, and then spend one afternoon in parliament changing the law to basically say we actually dont need the computers to carry out the election. We have a similar problem with our financial system (IFMIS), where county governments continue to fight it at every opportunity..the list is endless.
I think as a country we just need to be bold enough and make our choices.
We are either going digital, or we are entrenching our analog behaviours. We shouldn’t be wasting public resources trying to be BOTH digital and analog at the same time. We end up looking like some country the US President described recently. And that is definitly not who we are .
walu.
On Friday, April 13, 2018, 12:24:38 AM GMT+3, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote:
Ali, actually, the lawyers were not disrupted, or were they?
Conveyancing and sell contracts will still remain as before. Maybe I’m wrong.
On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 10:20 PM Barrack Otieno via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Ali and learned colleagues,
You know any public participation initiative on land related issues
would end up like Bomas 1 when we were doing the new constitution.
That said , there was and still is need for public participation, i
hope the new CS Farida Karoney can breath fresh air at the Registry.
Thank you Walu for the article.
Regards
On 4/12/18, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <[email protected]> wrote:
> @Kanini and @Victor,
>
> The lawyers bold enough to come out fighting. @Rosemary, we are watching
> you. We won’t allow you to all of a sudden become a lurker ?
>
> To your point Kanini – one of the biggest determinants of success or failure
> of any Digital Transformation initiative is not the technology itself but
> CULTURE. I fear this initiative is doomed to fail simply because it hasn’t
> carried stakeholders along.
>
> I fear a lot of government initiatives will go this way if CULTURE is not
> changed.
>
> Ali Hussein
> Hussein & Associates
> +254 0713 601113
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> Skype: abu-jomo
> LinkedIn: ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>
> “Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what
> no one else has thought”. ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 12 Apr 2018, at 9:45 PM, kanini mutemi via kictanet
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> We are here @Ali. Some of us don’t agree with LSK’s position. Yes public
>> participation wasn’t carried out and that was the original sin. However,
>> we should be fighting for a pause to consider public comment not bluntly
>> asking to go back to the analogue system. We can’t be seen to be fighting
>> digitization. But you understand why lawyers aren’t excited about some
>> digital developments eg smart lawyer platforms ?
>>
>> That being said, it must be understood that this digitization doesn’t
>> solve the inherent problems in conveyancing. Eg applying for a search,
>> whether physically or online, doesn’t guarantee you that there isn’t a
>> copycat file in the lands registry that could return misleading results.
>> Again, we have said on this list before that technology is not a magic
>> wand. Our land dishonesty problem won’t disappear because we’ve reduced
>> the foot traffic at Ardhi House. Also, picking up lessons from e-citizen,
>> company registration is online yes but you still need an ‘insider’ to help
>> you use the platform sometimes because applications may take time or the
>> platform returns error messages you wouldn’t be able to interpret on your
>> own.
>>
>> Ps: The previous administration peddled digitisation of the lands registry
>> too. Registries were closed severally to that effect. Perhaps there’s a
>> procurement question here. Was that mere scanning of records? Who did it?
>> Who is providing the services for the current process? How were they
>> engaged?
>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 at 21:30, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> The lawyers are here. We have been otherwise occupied trying to figure
>>> out how the new LMIS system works, in order to facilitate your
>>> conveyancing transactions!
>>>
>>> I wonder why some people want to digitise wakili’s out of business,
>>> surely. Jameni? Can’t we be left to ‘eat’ our legal fees in peace?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I think this is a good initiative. Trust me all lawyers want
>>> these land transactions to move quicker. Only that we need, for the
>>> benefits of our clients, to ensure there is proper due diligence done to
>>> ensure the integrity of land transactions. As you’re all probably aware,
>>> land disputes form a huge chunk of cases in our courts – in fact there is
>>> an entire court (ELC) dedicated to land matters. We facilitate the
>>> conveyance process and do not as some suggest, act as obstacles to land
>>> transactions. In fact, the faster we transact, the sooner we get paid –
>>> so nobody wants delays. Delays are caused by inefficiency, corruption,
>>> bureacracy and disorganisation in some of the registries. It is also
>>> important to note that the property management framework is a very
>>> complex regime and whereas technology can enhance such processes, there
>>> are certain technicalities that require a legal mind to determine.
>>>
>>> That said, the challenge with this government project is that it was
>>> conceptualised, designed and implemented – i believe in secret – and
>>> without adequate participation of key stakeholders. How many people here
>>> knew of the details of the land registry digitisation process until the
>>> lands registry in Nairobi was closed to the public for the migration
>>> process last month? If the process was more participatory, and there was
>>> better communication and awareness, then i doubt we would be having the
>>> issues being raised here or in the articles. As lawyers, we want change.
>>> But the technocrats developing ICT systems for e-government need to be
>>> more transparent about such projects. As we speak there is no programme
>>> for training on using the system or a manual at best – save for a sketchy
>>> 1 min. 29 sec. video and a paragraph with scanty instructions (see
>>> screenshot). Jameni. We must strive to implement such projects better, if
>>> the country has to get to where it needs to. The approaches to e-gov
>>> programmes need to be more holistic, strategic and systematic to ensure
>>> success. We deserve better, and we can do better.
>>>
>>> Ni hayo tu.
>>>
>>> Victor Kapiyo
>>> Partner | Lawmark Partners LLP
>>> Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, Commissioner for Oaths & Notary
>>> Public
>>> Suite No. 8, Centro House, Westlands, Nairobi | Web: www.lawmark.co.ke
>>> ====================================================
>>> “Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig
>>> Ziglar
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 12 April 2018 at 18:05, Ali Hussein via kictanet
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where are the lawyers?
>>>>
>>>> Ukiwa upande huu utajitetee…Ukiwa upande ule… LOL
>>>>
>>>> Ali Hussein
>>>> Principal
>>>> AHK & Associates
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>> LinkedIn: ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>
>>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>>>>
>>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> @SMM,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am under ‘Siekke’ for the article 😉
>>>>>
>>>>> I received a message from one of the lawyers who promised me a ‘Class
>>>>> Suit’. Am googling what that means and hope the digital lawyers onlist
>>>>> will come to my aid 😉
>>>>>
>>>>> walu.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 4:30:44 PM GMT+3, S.M. Muraya via kictanet
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Correction: Article is via @JWalu
>>>>>
>>>>> www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
>>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
>>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable
>>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LSK argument for remaining analogue, being anti digital..
>>>>>
>>>>> www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LSK cites section 34 of the Advocates Act which states: “No unqualified
>>>>> person shall, either directly or indirectly, take instructions, draw or
>>>>> prepare any document or instrument relating to the conveyancing of
>>>>> property.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> www. businessdailyafrica.com/news/ Ministry-switch-to-online-
>>>>> land-registry-sparks-row-with- LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/ index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, S.M. Muraya <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Noted well @walu
>>>>>
>>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
>>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
>>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable
>>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
>>>>>
>>>>> www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> —
>>>>> SMM
>>>>>
>>>>> “Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
>>>>> who takes a city.” Prov 16:32
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>> —
>> Mercy Mutemi, Advocate.
>>
>>
>>
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>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> development.
>>
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>> online that you follow in real life: respect people’s times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don’t flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
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>
