+1 Grace,
I have to agree – this issue may not be directly ICT related – but strong parallels can be drawn and it crosses the boundaries of ICT and general principles related to legal aspects, human rights and various other areas.
If this is not the forum for such a debate, what is? Because I do believe that such a debate needs to be had – without such contentious debates how do we advance? It is through the avoidance of sensitive subjects in the name of avoiding discomfort and in the same of political correctness that results in issues never getting dealt with and serves as a catalyst for further division and stigmatization – let the debate continue ?
Andrew
From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Grace Bomu via kictanet
Sent: 30 April 2018 20:33
To: Andrew Alston <[email protected]>
Cc: Grace Bomu <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Washington: It is one of those debates that remind us that ICT is everywhere. Let people express their views.
@Walu, storytelling is part of human development. That a story gives a different point of view from yours is part of the dynamics of culture. At the risk of disclosing my age, in my staunch Catholic household, we enjoyed Ramayan (a Hindu movie with lots of snakes) on Sundays; we read this book about Tekayo who was a cannibal; we watch Afrosinema where we see witchcraft….it just helps us travel to other worlds beyond ours.
Again, the role of KFCB should just be to tell us what is in the film. We can make choices on whether to watch it or not depending on our religious or other convictions and interests. At least that is what moving from a censorship to a classification policy should mean.
2018-04-30 20:19 GMT+03:00 Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Walu, you are wrong in so many levels.
All our societal issues are not mutually exclusive, and every actor has their role. There are those who push for better maternal healthcare, and they will not work in areas of mining rights. Those dealing with extrajudicial killings have no interest in cross-border trade. You cannot say now you will pursue flooding menace, and ignore road carnage. You cannot pursue healthcare problems, and ignore education or drought. We cannot pursue corruption and ignore markets for our produce.
And who is pushing what on who’s throat? Since when did sexual rights become a mzungu thing?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 7:47 PM Andrew Alston via kictanet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Walu – sorry but for once I fundamentally disagree with you, because this argument fails to notice one thing.
We have a choice to watch any movie made – we choose if we sit in front of the TV and watch it – we are not handcuffed to the couch.
My point is – just as you or anyone else has a choice not to view the content, others who wish to watch it in the privacy of their homes should be free to do so.
If no one imposes their enjoyment of a film on you – why should your disagreement with the content be imposed on others?
Andrew
Get Outlook for iOS<aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Walubengo J via kictanet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 7:13:00 PM
To: Andrew Alston
Cc: Walubengo J
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
Spot on Twahir,
Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be in better position to buy into what is clearly ‘1st-world’ issues.
As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can interprate them) is someone else’s priority; but for some reason, that someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after my basics issues have been sorted?
I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately refuse the agenda to ‘normalize’ what is clearly someone else’s normal.
#We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual arm twisting.
walu.
On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my thoughts below within the text of the constitution copied from a previous email
CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
PREAMBLE
ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn’t be ok.
HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to our land:
PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their trade. This only started when the west started pushing.
There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!
RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual, the family, communities and the nation:
RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law:
If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who chooses to commit suicide? Isn’t it his right to live?
Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a people! LGBT doesn’t stand the test of morality if it goes against the very supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!
EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of this Constitution:
ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future generations.
GOD BLESS KENYA
These are my opinions, I don’t mean to disrespect anyone.
Twahir
On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, “Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet” <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
@Alex
I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is
subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and
right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be immoral
depending on one’s beliefs.
The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
Regards
—–Original Message—–
From: Alex Comninos
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
@Lawrence
Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
Please explain?
There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the
sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you
could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and
their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something,
contact me.
Kindly,
Alex
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet <
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree,
morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
> Regards
> From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
> KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal
threshold.
> And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who
believe in different deities.
> Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution
recognises freedom of worship.
> Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
> 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
> (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion,
thought, belief and opinion.
> (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with
others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief through
worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day of
worship.
> (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or
facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person’s belief or
religion.
> (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that is
contrary to the person’s belief or religion.
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet <
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Does Kenya have a state religion?
>> On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, “kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via
kictanet” <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> on
behalf of [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Dear Alex,
>> I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism then
it is
>> immoral and ungodly.
>> God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
>> Leviticus 18:22
>> You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
>> Genesis 2:24
>> Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast
to his
>> wife, and they shall become one flesh.
>> Regards
>> —–Original Message—–
>> From: Alex Comninos via kictanet
>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM
>> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
>> I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main
>> storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
film to
>> be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there on
the
>> 8th of May.
>> Here is the trailer for the film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
>> > What is the film about?
>> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >> Hi
>> >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
banned an
>> >> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>> >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it was
>> reversed
>> >> by the courts.
>> >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>> >> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>> >> Kind regards,
>> >> Alex
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> kictanet mailing list
>> >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
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>> …
>> Alex Comninos
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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>> online that you follow in real life: respect people’s times and
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for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
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> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people’s times and bandwidth,
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