My takeaway is that FUPs should be published as a requirement. Also don’t
torrent too much.
On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 11:04 AM Barrack Otieno via kictanet <
[email protected]> wrote:
> @Ali Hussein <[email protected]> what if the Customer does not have
> sufficient Capacity to understand FUP, si unampea tu ajisomee na ajipange.
> By the way even fish can’t come to a fisherman who doesnt have bait yet
> they are analogue ama namna gani?
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:59 AM Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Andrew
>>
>> I do appreciate your very candid responses and of course, I wouldnt
>> expect you to agree with my ‘conspiracy theories’ about data. The fact that
>> you can’t run away from is this:-
>>
>> Most ISPs run a *Bait and switch *sales operations machine. This a
>> morally suspect sales tactic that lures customers in with specific claims
>> about the quality or low prices on items that turn out to be unavailable in
>> order to upsell them on a similar, pricier item. It is considered a form of
>> retail sales fraud, though it takes place in other contexts.
>>
>> So, when you are selling me bandwidth, don’t hide the FUP in T&Cs. Tell
>> me to my face. Then I decide whether I’m ok with it or not. This is the
>> biggest issue here. Not whether FUPs are done or not.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> *Ali Hussein*
>>
>> Digital Transformation
>>
>>
>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>
>> LinkedIn: ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> <ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>> organizations that I work with.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:47 AM Andrew Alston <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Safaricom did tell you about the FUP – unlike most ISP’s in the world
>>> that never disclose what those FUP’s are.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also – I’d be very careful about alleging that ISP’s are all looking at
>>> user data – particularly because it’s a patently false allegation that all
>>> data is analyzed on all links. Yes – some ISP’s probably do do that kinda
>>> DPI on every circuit – but it certainly isn’t the case for a large portion
>>> of them – because its not economically feasible to do it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Again, someone would have to pay for those analytics engines – and
>>> having written a significant amount of code to detect ddos attacks using
>>> pure packet headers (metadata) – I can tell you flatly that this belief
>>> that an ISP is sniffing every packet and analyzing it – is a conspiracy
>>> theory with very little basis in fact.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To back this up – on a software based platform – the following is the
>>> processing pipeline for packet analytics of packet metadata
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Receive the packet
>>> 2. Categorize the packet
>>> 1. By the Ethernet Protocol ID (IPv4, IPv6, possibly .1q tags)
>>> 2. By the Layer 4 Protocol byte (Specifically byte 9 of the IP
>>> header in V4 traffic)
>>> 3. Store the 32bit Source and Destination – combined with the
>>> Source and Destination port of the Layer 4 header dependent on if its UDP
>>> or TCP
>>> 4. Hash the whole lot and place it into a lookup table against
>>> the 5 way tuple.
>>> 3. Even if you vectorize that process – you are still looking at a
>>> coupla milliseconds per packet – times millions of packets a second. A
>>> modern server can do that kinda accounting at ~20gigabit/second if they
>>> bypass kernel which bloats things – but – they haven’t touched the data
>>> segment of the packet.
>>> 4. If you look at Cisco routers – if you do port mirroring – you are
>>> limited to mirroring the first 128 bytes of the packet – because the
>>> replication of anything beyond that kills performance, it can’t be done at
>>> line rate
>>> 5. If you look at Juniper routers – you can port mirror for
>>> analytics on the full packet – but at the cost of performance.
>>> 6. On hardware asic based routing – analytics such as you are
>>> referring to requires CPU punt – because the asics aren’t designed to do
>>> what you are proposing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A 10gig circuit can be running in excess of a million packets a second –
>>> even if you are vectorizing the packet processing – just analyzing the
>>> headers to categorize it – before you attempt to hash it and bucket it –
>>> requires a minimum of 100 instructions post packet receipt – add the
>>> hashing and bucketing – you’re looking at a few thousand instructions to
>>> the CPU **per packet** – add the payload analytics – this goes up by
>>> orders of magnitude – last I checked – ISP’s don’t have super computers
>>> lying around.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want full DPI to the level of analytics you are proposing – you
>>> HAVE to analyze the full payload content of the packet – and while there
>>> are boxes that can do this – they cost **millions** (of dollars not
>>> KSH) – and ISP’s generally aren’t gonna spend that kinda money unless they
>>> have to – because the cost has to be passed to the users.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Ali Hussein <[email protected]>
>>> *Date: *Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 10:32
>>> *To: *Andrew Alston <[email protected]>
>>> *Cc: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wacha kizungu mingi (I think you are Kenyan enough to understand what
>>> I’ve just said). ðŸ˜
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me put you on the spot. To come up with FUP’s you already know whose
>>> doing what so that ‘innocence’ of telling us about privacy now is moot.
>>> You all use these tools to snoop on us. Period. Now do it for the benefit
>>> of the customer. Not yours. This is really very simple. You all are crying
>>> foul about costs blah blah…but when you were wooing us you didn’t tell us
>>> about FUP…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do the right thing mate…Be on the right side of history.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>
>>> Digital Transformation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>
>>> LinkedIn: ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:19 AM Andrew Alston <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ali,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I respectfully disagree – FUP’s have been apart of the Internet since
>>> day one since they protect the integrity of the networks as a whole.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You have the option of buying an account without such an FUP – it just
>>> costs more – because someone has to cover the costs. Bandwidth doesn’t
>>> come free. This is the same reason why there are contention ratios (which
>>> I notice Safaricom also publishes).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You refer to big data analytics – yet if I were to propose that an ISP
>>> actively sniff and analyze user traffic – you’d be screaming about
>>> violations of privacy – because the type of analytics you are talking about
>>> would require deep packet inspection at levels you don’t even want to
>>> contemplate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me be clear – you get what you pay for – and if every user decided
>>> to use their FUP allocated terabyte to its full capacity – for every 3240
>>> users you would need a 10gigabit circuit – if every user ran at their
>>> maximum speeds on the 100mbit accounts – for every 100 users you would need
>>> a 10gigabit circuit. Trust me when I say – there is no world in which an
>>> ISP could afford to provide 10gigabit of bandwidth at a cost of effectively
>>> under $11k a month and still remain viable – which is what would happen if
>>> all those users maxed out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So – let me ask you – would you prefer that ALL the users be penalized
>>> with significantly higher prices – or would you prefer that people abide by
>>> what is fair (and what is in this case, a FUP that is 4 times the global
>>> average usage for home user accounts – which is just north of 250gigabytes
>>> of data a month on global average)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Ali Hussein <[email protected]>
>>> *Date: *Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 10:11
>>> *To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <[email protected]>
>>> *Cc: *Andrew Alston <[email protected]>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me call this BS as it should be called. BS. Surely, of all people,
>>> you shouldn’t be the one to justify FUP. I appreciate your honesty though.
>>> 😀
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here’s a thought:-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With all the tools available using Big Data and Analytics, aren’t you
>>> all able to isolate the abusers and punish them instead of painting all of
>>> us with the same abuser tar brush?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we are in the age of companies treating their customers with the
>>> respect they deserve and actually do right by them. What you have described
>>> is communal punishment. This is wrong and the regulator needs to take note.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>
>>> Digital Transformation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>
>>> LinkedIn: ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 8:13 AM Andrew Alston via kictanet <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I’ve hesitated to climb into this but – here goes anyway (everything
>>> written in personal capacity)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Firstly – almost ALL ISP’s have FUP’s in some form or another –
>>> generally buried deep in the T&C’s – as someone stated to me – in the UK
>>> with certain ISP’s suddenly your line just gets slow and then when you call
>>> support you find yourself quietly diverted to the abuse department.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The fact is that FUP’s are a necessary evil.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. They prevent customers from reselling one account to multiple
>>> other parties while sharing it using NAT – which impacts the financial
>>> viability of the service and make its more expensive for everyone else in
>>> the end
>>> 2. ISP’s operate on contention ratios – if you do not impose some
>>> form of FUP – you either have to put up the price or the contention ratios
>>> are going to get out of whack – and everyone else is going to suffer.
>>> 3. Globally most home accounts use well shy of half a terabyte a
>>> month – a terabyte of data is a LOT of data for a single home
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So let’s just put some context in what a terabyte of data actually
>>> means – and I always use video as the prime gauge of this because it’s the
>>> easiest example.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your average Netflix 4k film runs at ~25mbit at absolute maximum if you
>>> are watching 4K on an HDR enabled TV. That’s 22.5 Gigabytes of data every
>>> 2 hours – if you watch one 4K 2 hour movie every single day for a month you
>>> will eat 675gigs of data. If we drop this to 1080p – which is far more
>>> common – you are using ~7 megabit of bandwidth – or 6.3gigs every 2 hours –
>>> if you watch 300 hours of 1080p content in a month – or 10 hours a day –
>>> you still haven’t hit that cap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Effectively – you could watch one 4K movie every day for a month – and
>>> still watch 150 40minute tv episodes in 1080p in a month – and have room to
>>> move.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To look at it from another perspective – installation of something like
>>> Ubuntu Linux over the net – you could still over 400 machines on that kinda
>>> data load in a month.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With regards to gaming – you may burn 100gig pulling down a game and
>>> game updates – but after that in game play you are using tiny amounts of
>>> bandwidth and could keep yourself playing easily for a month with space to
>>> spare.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Zoom calls – if you ran zoom 24 hours a day – for a month – you’d use
>>> less than 70% of that cap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also – I might point out that the FUP’s slow your link down once you hit
>>> that cap – to a rate that is still useable if a little sluggish.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Basically what I’m saying in all of this – Safaricom’s FUP and T&C’s to
>>> me seem perfectly reasonable and designed to protect the network – with the
>>> alternative being – the price goes up for everyone or everyone suffers
>>> because of the few when the network congests. Bandwidth aint free – and
>>> you can’t have it both ways – the product still has to make financial sense
>>> to both the consumer and the provider
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *kictanet
>>> kictanet <[email protected]>
>>> *Date: *Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 07:36
>>> *To: *Andrew Alston <[email protected]>
>>> *Cc: *Adam Lane <[email protected]>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
>>>
>>> There’s a webinar on this topic today for those interested
>>>
>>> A Public Policy Discussion on #HomeFibre and #FairUsage Policies in
>>> Kenya.
>>>
>>> ðŸ—“ï¸ Thursday, 18th February 2021
>>>
>>> 🕜 12:00PM – 1:30PM
>>>
>>> Sign up here:
>>>
>>> 🔗 t.co/LdD11UVy8q
>>>
>>> #LawyersHub #AfricaLawTech #ISP t.co/a5w9SUiAl6
>>>
>>>
>>> Speakers from CA, Safaricom, Liquid, KICTAnet,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*Beryl Aidi via kictanet <[email protected]>
>>>
>>> *To:*Adam Lane <[email protected]>
>>>
>>> *Cc:*Beryl Aidi <[email protected]>
>>>
>>> *Date:*2021-02-18 05:57:28
>>>
>>> *Subject:*Re: [kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you Sidney for this.
>>>
>>> I don’t think Safaricom is being sincere in this fair usage limits. They
>>> promised that with Home Fibre one can stream, download or upload stuff
>>> without limits. All you do is pay your monthly subscription. Fair usage is
>>> a type of rationing that limits how much you can do when you had been
>>> promised that you can do whatever you want. To me this is going back on a
>>> promise. It’s reminiscent of the days of unlimited 3GB bundles on the
>>> dongle modem only for them to strike you with a fair usage notice. Are
>>> other networks doing the same? As the industry leader in the country, this
>>> is bound to influence other industry players to adopt the same standards
>>> and limits which is not good. Maybe it might be time to seek other options.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Beryl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16 Feb 2021, at 9:47 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Sidney for initiating this debate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 at 19:44, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Listers,
>>>
>>> Not sure if you’ve seen the stir online of changes to the ToS with
>>> Safaricom’s home offering.
>>>
>>> Safaricom is destroying Home Fibre with new ‘Fair Usage’ Limits:
>>> tech-ish.com/2021/02/14/safaricom-is-destroying-home-fibre-with-new-fair-usage-limits/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The response from the company has been disappointing in the extreme,
>>> misleading with statistics and suggesting that it’s best customers are
>>> thieves
>>> never mind that working for home has lead to increased demand and use of
>>> their services.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That tweet certainly does not call resellers thieves. It calls them
>>> resellers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All this is beside the point, at least for this forum, what I’m
>>> concerned about this that if we didn’t have an eagle-eyed blogger looking
>>> out for this, it would have been completely missed until it was already in
>>> place.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So I have a few of questions:
>>>
>>> 1. Does the CA have any policies around ToS changes around services
>>> under their purview and how they are communicated to users?
>>>
>>> CA has a consumer and public affairs department. Here is what they have
>>> to say about ToC ( CA/CPA/CEP/B/05/2014 )
>>> ca.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Consumer-Rights-and-Responsibilities.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps CA should update that information. It is 6 years old. But good
>>> information nevertheless.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Should companies that run what could be considered critical
>>> infrastructure be allowed to arbitrarily change their ToS to apply
>>> retroactively especially if it’s to the detriment of their customers?
>>>
>>> I hope lawyers here can help us with this.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.
>>> 2. If customers choose not to accept a change in ToS what redress do
>>> they have given that perhaps the provider is the only one available in
>>> their area.
>>> 3. Finally, given that we know this could all be avoided if there
>>> was more competition in the fibre market, what is the CA doing to make it
>>> so that we have more competition in that area? It’s concerning that
>>> Safaricom seems to only option for home connections in several places
>>>
>>> Determined by the market and economic forces. Just the other day,
>>> Safaricom was not in the home fibre market. What they have provided are
>>> more options for consumers. Numbers are stubborn facts. Fixed data
>>> subscription is as follows: Data source CA, July -September 2020 period,
>>> page 19
>>> ca.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Sector-Statistics-Report-Q1-2020-2021.pdf
>>>
>>> Safaricom PLC 229,406 subscribers, 35.6% market share
>>>
>>> Wananchi Group (Kenya) Ltd* 202,237 subscribers , 31.4 35.6% market
>>> share
>>>
>>> Jamii Telecommunications Ltd 127,914 subscribers , 19.8 Poa % market
>>> share
>>>
>>> Internet Kenya Ltd 56,824 subscribers ,8.8% market share
>>>
>>> Mawingu Networks Ltd 11,087 subscribers, 1.7 % market share
>>>
>>> Internet Solutions Kenya Ltd 9,228 subscribers, 1.4 % market share
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Consumers are speaking with their wallets.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As a policy discussion list, probably what we should be asking is what
>>> is the fair cost for certain broadband packages, and whether there is
>>> anything that can be really unlimited. Wearing my competent network
>>> engineer hat, I can tell you even at Safaricom, they don’t have unlimited
>>> bandwidth. Bandwidth is a limited resource to the extent of the network
>>> devices, network media, and cost of acquiring and delivering that bandwidth
>>> to your edge device.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
>>>
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/mwendwa-kivuva
>>>
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>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people’s times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don’t flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>
>
> —
>
> *Barrack Otieno*
> *Trustee*
> *Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTAnet)*
> *Skype:barrack.otieno*
> *+254721325277*
>
> *https://www.linkedin.com/in/barrack-otieno-2101262b/
> <www.linkedin.com/in/barrack-otieno-2101262b/>*
> *www.kictanet.or.ke <www.kictanet.or.ke>*
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> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people’s times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don’t flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
